Page 6-9

Page 6-9
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3rd May 2019, 7:28 PM in Chapter 6
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Author Notes:

Rocktopus 3rd May 2019, 7:28 PM edit delete
Rocktopus
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Comments:

Oldarmourer 3rd May 2019, 8:55 PM edit delete reply
Apparently, he's called Duke Frankfurt because he's such a wiener.
Matt 3rd May 2019, 9:12 PM edit delete reply
I'm constantly misreading it as Duke of Frankfurt, and constantly puzzled why is duke of Frankfurt harresing village in pseudo-Ireland. Why doesn't he just keep to his german lands? ....and then I realise I misread it again.
Rocktopus 4th May 2019, 3:53 AM edit delete reply
Rocktopus
I didn't realize the name would cause confusion, but he's the son of the previous king, Odhran. King Odhran married a princess from a foreign (german-ish) nation as part of a treaty, and allowed one of his sons to take on a traditional name form their culture.

But this is clearly causing reader confusion, so perhaps I'll change it to something more irish sounding? What do you all think?
Sturzkampf 4th May 2019, 6:50 AM edit delete reply
Sturzkampf
This is isn't Ireland, but your fantasy kingdom incorporating Irish elements. If you want the Duke to be called Frankfurt, then that's what he is called.
Rocktopus 4th May 2019, 7:50 AM edit delete reply
Rocktopus
I'm honestly not super committed to the name and kinda want to change it, but it's already established now, so changing it would be kinda awkward
Stefan 10th May 2019, 8:57 AM edit delete reply
Why would you want to change it? I can understand that a name like Frankfurt doesn't fit to an Irish setting on the surface, but neither does Hannover fit Britain or Bernadotte Sweden. Keep in mind that nobility is quite mobile compared to the rest of the populace so you can easily have a German count that has a Spanish name with Russian roots. And if you think that is absurd you should look up the marriage policies of the old Habsburgs and several other royal and noble houses. With this in mind I can say that having a duke in Ireland that is named Frankfurt is quite normal.
Slim Cognito 17th May 2019, 2:26 PM edit delete reply
The issue here is that "Frankfurt" is a city most readers have heard of, and maps to a specific place in their head. It's also a weird name for a person. Sure, we name kids "Paris" or "Dallas," but "furt" is a suffix indicating a settlement. I'd be like naming a kid "Kansas City."

Try just an actual German name. I'm partial to "Helbrecht" but that's just me.
Oldarmourer 4th May 2019, 5:07 PM edit delete reply
Leave it as it is, everything means something else in other places and this is a good time for people to learn that other meanings for names exist. frankfurters the sausages are named after Frankfurt the city, or is it weiners named after the city Wiens ? or both ? the same as Vienna sausages are named after Vienna and Hamburgers are named after Hamburg ? Either way, that's what it is and I care nothing for the 'cultural appropriation' bullshit fad that's stirring up unnecessary crap for no reason. Besides, I 've already identified him as 'his royal weenieness' and that isn't going to change in my head :)
Lurker 3rd May 2019, 9:21 PM edit delete reply
Aha, so this is how Colleen gets drafted, I'm guessing?
Rocktopus 4th May 2019, 3:54 AM edit delete reply
Rocktopus
There's a little more to this story ;)
Sturzkampf 3rd May 2019, 9:27 PM edit delete reply
Sturzkampf
Is Sir Paddy going to pay for all the villages? Either the Duke is paying him way too much, or he had a really good score on the pillaging front during the last season's campaigning.
Rodryg 3rd May 2019, 10:17 PM edit delete reply
Duke paying for service of a knight ?
AHAHA!
Good one... wait your serious ? You know how feudalism work ? Knight have to serve his liege no matter what if he is poor or wealthy, that or he can just pay him to avoid it. Usually knight had to shon with his own mini army if he was wealthier and had enought land to have his own men. Knights had to get money from they own land and other sources, then again it was good idea to reward knights for dedicated and faithfull service but do the Duke look like that kind of person ?
Then again still better than being a peasant where you technicaly didnt own anything as the land belonged to a Lord who "graciously" allowed you to live there and work hard until you died. If you didn't like it you could either drop dead on the spot, try finding servitude under more mercifull liege or go to town and try to become a freeman.
Sir Patrick will pay dearly for this assuming he does own enough land to support his proposition. Then again loking at how incompetent the Duke seems too be he might get greedy and this will turn ugly...
DaveP 4th May 2019, 12:50 AM edit delete reply
Half and half. Knights owe service to lords, but lords also owe support to their knights. Usually this is in the form of a grant of land (and peasants to work it) to support the knight while he is in training or on campaign, but sometimes it was a more cash-money deal. It takes a lot of time and money to train up and equip a mounted knight.
Sturzkampf 4th May 2019, 6:48 AM edit delete reply
Sturzkampf
No, not serious, but I believe that a common way for a knight to top up their wealth was a bit of pillaging.
Rocktopus 4th May 2019, 3:55 AM edit delete reply
Rocktopus
Sir Patrick is a high-ranking knight and a lesser noble; in fact, he's the Duke's right-hand man. He's somewhat wealthy, but you're right, he is sworn to serve his lord without question.
chris-tar 3rd May 2019, 9:41 PM edit delete reply
chris-tar
Colleen is definitely going to marry Sir Paddy one day.
Also, why does any government believe that they own their citizens and can just draft them into wars whenever they want?
someone 4th May 2019, 12:17 AM edit delete reply
Because they do? It's the foundation of what a government is. It governs. It's right there in the name. It's what they're meant to do.

Now you've got some governments that are all about the Will of the People, that have a Constitution giving them limits to what they can do and procedures to follow in order to do things; but here in fantasy pseudo-Ireland we clearly don't have this type of government. Instead we got the "divine right" one. They're a lot less comfortable. To start with, Colleen's family and the other villagers aren't citizens, they're subjects. There's a very big difference behind this nomenclature.

However, though he's a jerk, Duke Frankfurt here has a point: if he loses the war, things will go worse for the village here, as not only will his brother's armies pay themselves by looting the countryside, but after that their new lord will be Frankfurt's brother, and we honestly have no reason to believe him to be any gentler or more enlightened than Frankfurt himself.

Humans created societies by banding together to protect themselves against dangers, including other groups of humans. Governments were created to allow societies to grow bigger than about a hundred individuals in it, which was required because larger groups can more easily defend themselves than smaller ones, not just by having more people who can fight but also by simply having more skills in all domains, allowing the creation of better weapons, fortifications, greater food reserves to endure a siege, and so on and so forth. Union makes strength, strength in numbers, etc.
Guest 4th May 2019, 1:32 AM edit delete reply
In tha tevent, let us pray that his Dukiness hasn't heard of 'droit de siegneur'
Guest 4th May 2019, 3:26 AM edit delete reply
Wikipedia does not show consensus about whether "Droit du seigneur" really existed in Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_du_seigneur .
Packless1 5th May 2019, 9:17 AM edit delete reply
The 'droit de siegneur' wasn't mentioned before the late 1700s, during the french revolution.
It was invented (sex sells!) to blame the upper-class' corruption...!
Fact is, that if you wanted to marry a serve from another area, you had to pay his/her feudal lord a compensation for the loss of this servs workforce...!
Guest 4th May 2019, 3:30 AM edit delete reply
Why not just take half of the men between the ages of 13 to 24 for reduced taxes? That way, it won't be the whole generation.
Rocktopus 4th May 2019, 3:56 AM edit delete reply
Rocktopus
Why indeed? ;)
padanew 4th May 2019, 4:11 AM edit delete reply
padanew
Rocktopus how old are the twin boys at this point?
Rocktopus 4th May 2019, 4:12 AM edit delete reply
Rocktopus
About 14 years old right now.

Colleen has just hit adulthood at this current point.
padanew 4th May 2019, 6:07 AM edit delete reply
padanew
I am also guessing that Colleen doesn't know she can cast Divine magic yet, or is it a skill anyone can learn, or only my Divine pleasure?
Rocktopus 4th May 2019, 6:20 AM edit delete reply
Rocktopus
Nope, not yet! Only people chosen by a divine being can cast divine magic.
Foxbat64 4th May 2019, 11:04 AM edit delete reply
Seems pretty desperate... Must be losing
Rocktopus 5th May 2019, 6:56 AM edit delete reply
Rocktopus
You might be right
Sturzkampf 4th May 2019, 4:36 PM edit delete reply
Sturzkampf
A couple of random thoughts:
What a benevolent and enlightened ruler the Duke is to actually give his vassals a choice! :-)
Some of the young men in the village might actually want to join up. A chance for a little excitement, wealth and to travel further than two miles from where you were born, as opposed to a life of shovelling sheep dung in the pouring rain.
Rocktopus 5th May 2019, 7:05 AM edit delete reply
Rocktopus
Considering they haven't found a husband for Colleen yet, there may be a limited amount of unmarried young men in this tiny village that would be so enthusiastic to march off to war against their own countrymen!
Guest 5th May 2019, 8:29 AM edit delete reply
Yeah, marching off against your own countrymen, especially for a feud between brothers, is very or more bitter. Hopefully the bloodshed and casualties in the war has been and will be light, though if the Duke is in need of refilling the ranks... of course, this may (hopefully) also be due to desertion or maybe switching sides. Sir Patrick may have been helpful and capable in decreasing the costs of the war, maybe for both sides and the population generally, which if so counts greatly in favour of him.

It also helps explain the attitude of Sir Patrick - going to war against your own and good people tends to not be right or even horrible and evil, and thus anything but motivating. Propaganda and manipulation can change the perception, but doesn't decrease how bitter or horrible and evil it might be in reality. And thus propaganda and manipulation can be extremely evil and dangerous, and protecting against it (and building up capabilities and the like reg. protecting against it) is extremely important.

One can then make an argument that going to war against your own can at least help ensure that the group is capable of fighting as well as get experience and the like - but this is an argument that, depending on the circumstances, can only be made with (very) heavy reservations and/or precautions, for war can be extremely costly, both in the short-term, long-term and very long-term.

(It also shows the importance of having good, robust and wise last wills, and the importance of hereditary laws and customs).
Guest 4th May 2019, 9:35 PM edit delete reply
So NOW the full picture emerges. A civil war over the throne between the two princes. And that casts serious doubt over the idea of the village being pillaged by the other guy. It's just short-sighted to pillage territory you're going to be ruling next year.

Also, Sir Patrick's gonna bite it.
someone 6th May 2019, 10:17 AM edit delete reply
It's not the leader who does the pillage, it's the soldiers. It can be very hard for the leader to stop the warriors from helping themselves. Especially if they're mercenaries. If you think a medieval army was above pillaging their own countrymen, you're really, really mistaken.

Warriors gotta eat, and if logistics are at a medieval level and the food wagons are emptied or they got lost in the way at some point, the simplest is to go get food from the nearest village, where they won't have enough reserves to feed everyone so they'll object, so you go over their objections by virtue of being the guys with swords and them being the guys without swords. And yes that involves a hefty bit of massacring and raping as the prelude to pillaging.

And don't think peacetime was better, because then you had unemployed bands of mercenaries turning into marauders.
Oldarmourer 6th May 2019, 4:16 PM edit delete reply
in other words,as was purportedly said in 'Murphy's Laws for the Military'...
"Try to avoid ejecting over territory you've just bombed"
BornOnTheNinth 5th May 2019, 1:24 AM edit delete reply
If the Duke is so desperate for money, how does he expect to feed and arm more kerns? Starvation and desertion can defeat an army just as surely as the sword.
guest 5th May 2019, 1:52 AM edit delete reply
He's probably going to use them as a suicide attack
padanew 5th May 2019, 5:31 AM edit delete reply
padanew
Peasant Shield: casting time 14 years.
Oldarmourer 6th May 2019, 4:17 PM edit delete reply
Love it :) consider it stolen
Rocktopus 5th May 2019, 7:01 AM edit delete reply
Rocktopus
That'd be why he'd rather tax them than just instantly conscript them ;)
Guest 5th May 2019, 3:07 AM edit delete reply
"Pillage anything not nailed down" --- that you stole first, right mister "duke"?
Rocktopus 5th May 2019, 6:59 AM edit delete reply
Rocktopus
All I'll say is that this duchy is technically his birthright.
And according to him, so is the throne...
Matthew 5th May 2019, 5:12 AM edit delete reply
See, the irony of becoming an adventurer to earn money to pay off a corrupt lord is that by the time you finally come back you can pretty much destroy the corrupt lord's army single-handedly.

Insect Plague!
Flame Strike!
Flame Strike!
Spirit Guardians!
Rocktopus 5th May 2019, 6:57 AM edit delete reply
Rocktopus
lmao
Packless1 5th May 2019, 9:06 AM edit delete reply
...about the confusion about his title king/duke...?
Is it just me, who imagines him claiming several times per day: "...i want to become king instead of the king...!" ;-)
b.t.w.
Why does this guy reminds me to the Duke of Lancre from Terry Pratchett...? ;-)
Rocktopus 6th May 2019, 7:39 AM edit delete reply
Rocktopus
I'll get into it more later, but there's a reason he can't declare himself the crowned prince or king, despite that he believes himself the true heir to the throne...
someone 6th May 2019, 9:59 AM edit delete reply
Are they half-brothers maybe? Maybe his dad became king by marrying the royal princess, but his first wife was a lesser noblewoman who died giving birth to Frankfurt's rival brother?

Or perhaps it's more simply the case of an elder bastard son and a younger legitimate son? In Britain it was customary to use the "Fitz" prefix (coming from French "fils", "son") on bastard sons: Fitzpatrick is the bastard son of a Patrick, Fitzgerald is the bastard son of a Gerald, and so on.

Anyway it'd be interesting if Frankfurt is somewhat justified, because so far he's really a caricature, and giving him a bit more depth would help. After all, there must be something beyond just the weight of tradition to justify Sir Patrick's continued loyalty to this brute.
Bookeater_otaku 6th May 2019, 2:23 AM edit delete reply
I have an irrevelant question to the page above about the Marble gate universe. Does this world have a race like the small Mousefolk I saw in some DnD homebrew or maybe something like Mouseguard? Would be fun for Coleen party to have an even smaller compagnion like that in her party.
Rocktopus 6th May 2019, 7:39 AM edit delete reply
Rocktopus
I haven't thought about it, but I don't see why not!
David Argall 6th May 2019, 6:46 AM edit delete reply
An idea I am playing with is that about 18 years back, our noble knight made himself a lot more popular with the female villagers than with the male. It's a stretch to make him our girl's actual father, but it's not out of the question. and gives him a reason to have soft feeling for this village even if it is some other villagers who are closely related to him.
Rocktopus 6th May 2019, 7:40 AM edit delete reply
Rocktopus
Ooh! Scandalous!
Oldarmourer 6th May 2019, 4:20 PM edit delete reply
unfortunately, he's missing the red hair and buck teeth...her younger brothers on the other hand........
David Argall 8th May 2019, 4:43 AM edit delete reply
Yes, having our knight the father of the twins does fit better. The hair fits better in all cases and we don't have to stretch quite so far to make the ages work. Of course, I am not a fan of the idea of his being the romantic interest of our lass, but taking up with the sister of your sons might be rather off-putting, even when there is no actual relationship. So that is not a serious problem.
io 6th May 2019, 6:04 PM edit delete reply
red hair is a recessive trait. Mama has brown hair dominant trait therefore most of the children will be brunettes. One other thing were both twins boys to begin with?
Rocktopus 6th May 2019, 9:25 PM edit delete reply
Rocktopus
Both twins are boys and they were twins from birth.
stevie 9th May 2019, 4:01 PM edit delete reply
page 6-9.

nice >:]